Hello from Michigan

I am an engineer working for General Motors and am interested in the towing industry because of my job responsibilities. My role finds me packaging a vehicle from concept to production and ground clearance for towing and the European towing requirement always is an issue so here I am at this website looking to gain knowledge from the experts.

I appreciate everyone's time and patience.

Hello John, and welcome to towinfo!

Thank you. I am primarily looking to find information on whether the Towing Industry has standards when it comes to towing specs related to the sling type, wheel lift, or car carrier. When we design vehicles for todays markets, especially the ones with low ground clearances to provide better drag numbers for fuel efficiency the towing issue often comes up. However, I find it difficult to actually find the criteria I need because every towing facility has unique methods and many times altered equipment. Can you provide a direction that I can look to see if the equipment used has a standard size, width, depth for example in which I can model the criteria in 3D and provide to the program teams who package the early concepts? My hope is to make sure all of the vehicles comprehend the towing requirements to properly and safely get a vehicle off the road shod it need towing.
Thank you...
John

Sure John, look around in the light duty towing section and you will find lots of different examples of equipment used.

https://towinfo.forumotion.com/light-duty-f5/

If you want an example of something specific, just ask and I'm sure one of our members can provide an example.

Welcome to Towinfo John.i hope you enjoy your visit.

welcome aboard john we wil do all we can to help you

John welcome to Towinfo.

Ground clearence is an issue when loading different vehicles but we can generally overcome that problem. The 1 problem i have is vehicles are being built as if they never break down so the manufacturers neglect to provide secure chain attachments for winching a vehicle up onto the bed of a truck.

Hi DNH,
Are you talking about providing holes or slots in the cradle or frame when a vehicle is stranded on the side of the road or when a vehicle is in ditch recovery mode?

Our standard practice for stranded vehicles on the shoulder is to allow the towing industry to use the frame or cradle to bed the truck or lift onto a dingy.

Our standard practice for ditch recovery is to allow the towing industry to use any means to remove the vehicle necessary. Once a vehicle has left the road and is in a ditch, worrying about damaging the vehicle when recovering it should be the minimal concern. The reason being is that once a vehicle has left the road and is in a ditch of some kind, it has already incurred the majority of damage and any more from recovering it should be minimal.

Also, with all of the new fuel economy requirements the manufacturers have to abide by, our air dams and more plastic components like duck bills to wheel liners block any attachments even if we were able to provide them. Closing out the entire bottom of the front end is good for drag, aerodynamics, damage to components from rocks and other debris on the roads, and splash. Similar to race cars on the track, a vehicle gets better fuel economy when there are more ground effects lower to the concrete. Most vehicles are required to provide an 8" ground clearance for parking blocks and curbs however, we have been lowering that to gain better mpg on some vehicles. It definately is a trade-off when the vehicls is so low to the ground for reasons like towing, shipping, and when a custome rips their air dam off the vehicle and then complains to the dealerships.

John ,

in responce to your comment regarding air dams maybe you can come up with some sort of hidden hinge or snap fit for easy removal, when we try to load the front wheel drives with a wheel lift or rollback clearance is a big issue, also some tie down points on the frame rails would be good , we usually use straps on the tires and once in a while we run into a clearance issue with the strut tower and the oversize tires, also if you intend to use the pin method that BMW utilizes it would serve everyone better if you could center it. im sure alot of folks will voice their opinion ...good or bad......but you have defenitly made the right choice regarding towers information...if there is anything we can do to be of assistance please feel free to call.....oh yeah.........welcome aboard.

Leo McHugh
Owner
Auto Express Towing & Recovery Inc.
Stuart, Florida.34994
772-419-6006
772-924-6964 Cell

call anytime..........

Welcome to Tow Info !!! Glad your here , i was a salesman for the medium duty Chevy Trucks for a few years , I Love the GM products .

thank god john,where are all the other manufacturing engineers???im so glad you took the time and effort to find us and i am honored you asked our opinion.i was a tech for 20 years also with GM.they never asked for a mechanics point of view,im glad your asking for ours.our industry has been trying to keep up with the development but its been difficult without cross training. we end up finding out you changed something only after we get called to a scene and discover we need a new(not yet developed) tool for the job!as far as recovering vehicles from ditches, i have to respectfully object to your point of view.we,as professionals, pride ourselves in being able to not cause ANY secondary damage to vehicles.the latest method we have been using on auto's has been using continuous loop straps placed through the spokes of aluminum rims.this has worked quite well.i dont have any outright suggestions except one....just keep us in mind when you do design something.remember cars dont know they are supposed to not brake down or go in a ditch!!all we ask is that you give us a little something to grab onto to load on a rollback or an inch or two under the oil pans to clear wheel lifts!! have a great day and thanks for showing interest!welcome aboard! tony

Hi HDTower2, no worries on the ditch recovery topic. The comment about secondary damage or lessening it was not directed towards the job the towing industry does as a whole. The reasoning behind worrying about ditch recovery, especially alongside a highway is the time it takes to recover, then remove the vehicle from the scene. From a police officer's perspective, time is the key. It is safer for the person running the tow truck and to everyone else involved with the accident to lessen their time spent on the side of the highway. Gawkers or other drivers not paying attention can make the entire area unsafe so getting the vehicle out of the ditch and on its way to a safer place for evaluation and repairs is what we were told should be the standard operating procedure.

[quote="JohnMinicuci"]Hi DNH,
Are you talking about providing holes or slots in the cradle or frame when a vehicle is stranded on the side of the road or when a vehicle is in ditch recovery mode?

Our standard practice for stranded vehicles on the shoulder is to allow the towing industry to use the frame or cradle to bed the truck or lift onto a dingy.
quote]

Yes to the first part along with some minor reinforcement so as not to tear or bend any of the attacment holes, some customers will get on the ground to check and freak out if they see a little dimple from a baby J or grab hook. As for accidents and recovery work strong secure attachment points would be nice, but not practical from a manufacturer's stand point.
The other hard part with adding more attachment locations weather for simple loading of a vehicle or strapping down...comes back to the air dams or rocker panels being so low which cause interfearence issues with straps or chains, so there has to be some kind of happy medium.
Alot of foriegn manufacturer's use the single screw in hook for the bumper for simple loading on a flatbed. The problem i see with that setup is most people lose the screw in hook...so where do you hook to now to load a car? or as the car is pulled further up the flatbed the winch and wire rope are pulling down ward on the hardend bumper hook what if it snaps off...and the car rolls away.....its my personal opinion i don't like the tow hook bumper design because of that possiabilty, not to mention getting the little plastic cover open with out scratching it.